Q: We currently have a Hayward H250 natural gas heater on our 16’ X 28’ In ground pool and have thought about replacing it with a heat pump. Several years ago I installed a 2 speed pump on the pool and we now save a lot of kilowatts by using the lower speed. However when we want to heat the water we must run the pump on high speed to meet the gas heaters minimum pressure requirement. It’s not really much of a problem because we only use the pool from mid May till mid September and with the solar cover on it holds the heat in pretty good unless we have some unusually cool weather. We also have what I call an indirect solar heating system on the pool that adds a little extra heat as well so we don’t have to run the gas heater very much once we get the water up to temperature. As such I was wondering if the heat pump pool water heater that you use requires you to run your pool pump on high speed to keep your water warm?
My indirect solar pool heating system consists of 400’ of polybutylene tubing that I put in the concrete that surrounds the pool. I feed it with pool water coming off a tee fitting that I installed after the filter but before the heater. Of course I have a ball valve installed so that I can shut it off at night. Once the water exits the 400’ of tubing that is buried in the concrete it just gravity flows back into the pool. I can send you som photos of it if you’re interested in learning more about it. Another benefit of using this indirect solar system or maybe we should call it a reverse radiant system is that it keeps the concrete a little cooler on those very hot sunny days. My grandkids really appreciate that.
A: his sounds like a well thought out installation – I like the passive pool heater which heats the water and cools the deck, a very nice two-for! I think this would work on most pool decks, but obviously you need to do this from the start. If I were designing a pool from the start I would also connect the pool heat-pump heater to the house AC system, but that is a different subject, you can read more about it here if you like: https://greenzerocarbonhome.com/2020/07/free-ac-in-my-house-from-heat-pump-heaters-for-swimming-pools-and-heat-pump-hot-water-tanks/
Our pool heat pump is made by AquaCal and it has proven to be both reliable and efficient. When we installed it, we left the old propane heater in place but we no longer use it at all. If it did not cost me money to take it out, I would have taken it out by now.
The heat-pump pool heater does have a minimum water-flow requirement to work and on our pool and it is at about 1,400 rpm on the variable-speed pump motor for the water-circulating pump. I usually set the water pump at 2,000 rpm so that it circulates the entire pool volume once per 24 hours, which is necessary to keep the pool water filtered. So it is usually enough flow to allow the heater to come on. However, if the skimmers and filter are clogged, the heat pump will shut down because the water flow is insufficient even at 2,000 rpm.
The pool-water circulating pump now runs 24/7 at 2,000 rpm compared to the old fixed-speed motor that ran at 3,450 rpm about 12 hours a day. This alone is saving me about 75% of the electricity used to run the pool. If you already have a 2-speed motor it is probably not going to save you a lot more money to go with a variable-speed motor. But when you need to replace the pump, I would recommend a variable-speed one as then you can set it to the lowest flow rate needed to circulate the entire pool volume in 24 hours. There is a lot more information on how we got to a zero-carbon footprint on our pool in the book Zero Carbon Pool which you can order here: https://greenzerocarbonhome.com/shop/
Q1: What would be the difference between Passive House and Green Zero Carbon houses?
A: PassivHaus focuses on passive solar gain as a big part of its energy saving. I do not. Passive solar gain from big south-facing windows leads to massive overheating on sunny days in winter which leaves people using their AC in winter, which is insane. Windows (good ones are R4-5) are less insulating than a wall (a bad one is R12) so any time you have a window rather than a wall, you have heat leaking out in winter and heat leaking in in summer. If you have big windows you have big holes in your thermal envelope. PH also is a philosophy of perfectionism. I am totally pragmatic and have no ideology. I look FIRST at what saves money and makes a good return on investment. PH does not look at cost effectiveness at all. This is why the PH movement has really struggled to become established in over 30 years of trying. At the end of the day PH is expensive to implement and very time consuming because of their detailed audit requirements. Frankly, it is also a lot of hassle to do everything to the Germanic standards of perfection and record everything in their software package (the PassivHaus Planning Package), which is so complicated it takes days of training to get certified to use it. Also, PH makes no accounting for where the house is located (you may have noticed that Canada has colder winters than Florida but the PH standard is the same in all locations) or how big the house is. Both location and size are key drivers of energy use and energy efficiency. PH has no standard for a renovation, it only applies to new construction, which means it is irrelevant to the 99% of all houses that are already built each year. Finally, the PH emphasis on air-tight construction has led to excess condensation and mold in PH construction. My fab four recipe was developed for retrofits, but when applied to new construction it is cheaper and easier to implement than on a renovation. See my post here: https://greenzerocarbonhome.com/2020/06/can-you-use-hits-to-build-a-new-house-with-a-zero-carbon-footprint/
Also see this article on better ways to measure energy efficiency:https://greenzerocarbonhome.com/energy-and-finance-terms-explained/net-zero-passivhaus-leed-certification-zerh-and-hers/
Q2. Is there any certification to build Green Zero Carbon homes like Passive homes?
A: If you use my Zero Carbon Home consulting service then I will certify the house.
Q3. As far as cost comparison which would be less costly and more benefits value v/s money
A: I do not yet have the side-by-side data to prove this, but since I start with cost-effectiveness I think it is likely that a Green Zero Carbon house is more cost-effective than a PassivHaus.
Q4. Any other thing that you would like to highlight and add from your experience.
A: Overall, I think my approach is practical and sensible. I am also completely independent and am not paid by or employed by any manufacturer or installer in the industry.
Q: I watched a presentation of yours a few weeks ago, the one sponsored by Sherborn and Holliston. Impressive and informative…many thanks.
As a result of the presentation I’m interested in adding 2” insulation board, as well as Aerogel, when I re-side the house. My wife does not like foam off-gassing, so we will leave our fiberglass batting alone and add the insulation board outside of it.
There are LOTS of insulation panel types to choose from. Any recommendations on which are best?
In your presentation you mentioned the aesthetic problem with adding 2” or 4” insulation boards, i.e. that they strand the window a few inches inside the siding. I wonder if this problem could be overcome by cutting the insulation board surrounding the windows into picture frame dimensions by making – a 3-d mitre cuts of the insulation at the window corners. One would end up with thin insulation board at the edge of the windows, but gain a lot of insulation everywhere else.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
A: You can certainly do this kind of mitre cut to lessen the impact of installing the insulation. If you are adding only 2” it might still look good. I think it is best to discuss this with the window installer.
The Aerogel product has the best R value per inch at R10, so 1” has the same insulation as a 2” ISO board, but it’s only an inch deep. It is more expensive psf that ISO board. I do not know what it’s flammability rating is though.
A more fire-proof alternative to adding the foam is to pull out the fiberglass and replace it with rockwool batts (Roxul comfortbatt is the most widely available). It is about R4 per inch vs R3 for fiberglass. Rock wool cannot burn (it is literally strands of melted rock) so it is better fireproofing. You can add a 1.5” rockwool board (R6) instead of the ISO board outside the studs too. If you are going to go to all this trouble it is probably worth adding an airtight/waterproof membrane on the outside too. Siga makes these type of specialized membranes. They have to be properly installed (with the seams sealed) to create the air-tight barrier. After this, your house will be far better insulated and far less drafty.
I am glad your wife is concerned about off gassing, but I think their is an even bigger concern: fire resistance. Sometimes I feel like a lonely voice on the flammability of foam products. I intend to use rockwool when we add insulation on our rental property for precisely this reason. It is not just the flammability that bothers me, it is the thick black smoke created when foam insulation burns.I will also be adding the Siga membrane for air tightness too.
The question I asked during the webinar was not very clear. We have a water based heating system with radiators and a boiler fueled by gas. We also have an air-sourced A/C system with small tubes running throughout the house (a UNICO, high velocity system) without the hanging of mini-split systems in each room. Is there any way of using an air sourced heating system to heat the hot water in our radiator based heating system (either through the existing boiler or directly to the hot water circulation system)?
Hi Alan, yes is the short answer, you can connect an air-sourced heat pump to a water radiator system. These are sometimes called hydronic systems. But the long answer is a big more nuanced. These type of air-sourced heat-pump to hot-water systems are made by Jaga, Daiken and Spacepak and other manufacturers. I have never used one so I have no particular recommendations. The hot water in a boiler-driven radiator system is typically at 140F. Air-sourced heat pumps have a hard time getting the output side (whether it is air or water) above about 110F. So your radiators will no longer have that piping-hot feel (which may be good or bad – I have nearly burnt myself on hot-water radiators before). This means that it will take longer to heat your house up from cold – like when you come home from a winter vacation. But, as long as the heat output is matched to your heating load your rooms will stay warm, it will just take longer to get warm compared to what you are used to.
Are you thinking of using the UNICO high-velocity system with a heat pump so it would heat in the winter as well as give you AC in summer? We have a similar system in our rental house and I would consider replacing it with a heat pump if such a system exists. Let me know if you find one.
On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Chris wrote:I enjoyed the presentation & am looking forward to reading your book. I’m surprised air sealing wasn’t emphasized more. A new version of an old product looks very interesting: AeroBarrier. Instead of replacing 3 basement windows (12 x 32in); I’m getting quotes for Innerglass. Thanks!I haven’t yet read your pool topic & wonder if you’ve seen the pool heater that uses waste central AC heat?
Hi Chris, I am beefing up what I say about air sealing. I have seen houses where air sealing cut 25% off the energy bill. This was not true on my house, where my roof is a rubber membrane and my siding is tongue and groove. I did use a couple of cans of spray foam around the sill plate and weatherstripped the bulkhead door. However, this was not enough for me to be able to measure the cut in the energy bills. However since my house was an exception I will be mentioning it much more in future. See my recent blog post on the issue:
You are well ahead of the pack on your thinking on swimming pool heaters. My pool heater is a standard issue AquaCal heat pump – it is very good and very economical to run. On warm days when we are heating the pool, (say a warm day in May) it exhausts cool dehumidified air into the atmosphere, truly global cooling! My pool is too far from my house to capture this and use it as AC in the house. But if ever built a house with a pool I would design it so that the heat pump for the pool would dump its cool air into the house. Free AC! I do not know of any heat pumps designed to do this but it would be fairly easy (i.e., you would need to hire an HVAC tech to do it) to run the refrigerant line from the heat pump to the head of a mini-split unit in the house. If you do this, please let me know, I would very much like to publicize stories like this.
While I have not done this on my pool I have done something similar on my house. I do this by opening the vents (where the air filters slot in) in my air-handler units in my house in about May through September. This is when it is warm enough outdoors that I need AC indoors. Rather than turning on the AC, I open the vents on the air handlers in the basement. This draws air out of the basement and into the circulation of the house. I lean the filter pads against the open vent so that the air circulation is still filtered. The air in my basement is cool and dry. Why? My heat-pump hot-water tank cools and dehumidifies the air in the basement. This works because the ceiling of the basement is very well insulated at approx. R38 because I added 12” of fiberglass in between the floor joists. Using this source of cool, dry air allows me to avoid using the AC units for about 4 weeks in the year when previously I had to use them. It is not a major cost saving but it is a nice one. I like anything I can get for free! If houses were properly designed, things like this and the integration of pool heating with house cooling, would be built in from the start. Sadly these people seem to not talk to each other.
If you are seriously thinking of putting in a pool then the $15 you spend on Zero Carbon Pool could be one of the best investments you will ever make. I am saving about $3,000 a year. My pool is big, but even on a standard sized 20’x40’ pool you would save about $1,000 a year by following the pool fab four recipe.